Whereas I become one of those judgemental parents
Child's Play x2 | November 18Whenever I go out to run errands or just go somewhere to relax, it is usually after the kids have been put to bed. In our household bedtime is 7:00 p.m.
Because it is the norm to have our very-ready-for-sleep kids go to bed at this hour, it amazes me how many people I see out toting their toddlers around town. Right now, as I type this, it is 9:40 p.m. on a Saturday night. A couple just walked into The Coffee Bean coffee shop, where I have staked out a spot, with their 2 year old son.
Is this more of a norm than I thought? Different strokes for different folks? Should I just mind my own business?
Yeah, I should just mind my own business.
We put our kids to bed at 7:30pm until this year, when we’ve eased it to 8:00pm. Our boys are turning 7 and 9 in a few weeks…we sort of had to. I’m with you in wondering what the heck all those kids are doing in the mall so late! Maybe their parents are morning people and need the extra kid-sleeping time early, rather than at night?
Well, you might have been wondering about me…but, we don’t have a Coffee Bean in Galveston. My husband and I have very flexible work schedules. Because we do not have ridged work schedules, we have a tendancy to be pretty flexible about the sleep times of our 2 1/2 year old. If he stays up late, he sleeps in late (i.e.; 8pm - 9am). If he goes to bed early, we all start our day early (i.e.; 7am - 8pm).
It works for our family to be flexible when it comes to sleep. For us, it is not so much about the schedule as it is about the amount of sleep our son gets in a 24 hour period.
I saw a 2-3 year old after my soccer game a few nights ago. Our game ended at 10:45 P.M.! I couldn’t believe it. My kids go to bed at 8.
I’m with you, but I minded my own business, too.
Ah, a fellow “My Blue Heaven” fan.
“It’s a veg-e-ta-ble”
Anyway…our boys don’t sleep much, but we still try and have then in bed by no later than 8:30 (they’re still up by 6 a.m. at the latest). I’m a firm believer in the idea that parents are married couples first and they still need their time together. Of course, this can only happen after the kids are in bed.
But I too marvel at some parents who say their children don’t “want” to go to bed until 11 p.m. Who cares what they want? Be a parent, put those kids to bed!
Our son goes to bed at 8 p.m. We like having the alone time for a couple of hours after he goes to bed. We have a friend that puts their daughter to bed at around 11:30 and she wakes up around noon the next day. That’s crazy.
I guess we’re going against the flow here.
My wife works out of town and doesn’t usually get home until close to 7:00. Even if I prepare dinner, we’re not normally through eating until 8:00. That doesn’t give her a lot of one-on-one time with the girls so our (almost) 6-year-old doesn’t get to bed until around 10:00.
9-9:30 pm is the norm at our house. The one year old generally gets droopy eyed and starts looking for his bottle (whole milk) around 8:30 or so. After that, it is 15-30 minutes of pure one on one dad-son quality time as he babbles about his day and I babble about mine until I bore him to sleep.
Yep, we are in the boat of “bad parents” too. We don’t get home from work until 6:30 and often don’t get dinner cooked and eaten until 7:30-8. So we usually shoot for slowing down around 8:45 and sleep by 9:30 for our 27 month old. There are days where he might conk out a little earlier or stay wired a little later, but that’s the range we try to go for and it’s worked out okay for us. If my boy had a 7 PM bedtime, I’d never see him except on weekends.
One of the best things I got out of the Daddy Boot Camp class I took while we were expecting was to just go with the flow and use whatever works for YOUR family without feeling guilty as long as it’s not negatively affecting the health of the child. I’ve read lots of different stuff in this space and across the dad blogosphere to know that pretty much every household has something that will make other parents recoil in horror, if they’re so inclined. :)
As long as the little ones get some sleep and they have some sort of consistent schedule, it’s probably OK. Ours would be going into major meltdown mode by then, though. If it was a weekend, it wouldn’t matter, just let them sleep in. It used to be that the exact time didn’t matter as much, until the oldest started going to kindergarten this year, and there’s no sleeping in during the week. If she doesn’t have her sleep, it’s GRUMPY CITY (she’s our little drama queen!), so ’nuff said…it’s 8PM every night for her. :)
I love My Blue Heaven as well… ‘you’re ruining your pants!’ :D
We, too, are bad parents who let our child dictate his own bedtime of 9:00-9:30. We tried making go down earlier, but bedtime became a screaming and wrestling match, and he woke either hours before we were ready or multiple times in the night, so we swiftly decided to go back to the later times, and it works for everybody.
[…] The comments I’ve received both here and at TheBlogfathers where I cross-posted this have been a combination of “I agree” and “There are extenuating circumstances”. […]
you should definitely mind your own business on this one. like me, the parents that i’m reading let their kids stay up late is because they want more bonding time from coming home too late. save your contempt for the parents who neglect their kids or are really abusive. going to bed late is not that big of a deal if they are getting good sleep at night and a nap in the day.
7:30 is the law in my house and wind down time starts a half hour earlier. My family still calls the house at all hours and asks what Devin is doing. I always tell them the same thing “If you call my house after 7:30 he’s in bed. It’s really that simple.” I’ll tell you that getting lots of sleep has made my son a better kid. We’ve made some serious sacrifices to keep to this schedule. I think people really don’t understand how important sleep is to a developing child.
s ago, many places like The Coffee Bean weren’t open very late at Technological advances like electricity and computers have lengthened our work day, and just our daily life day too. Makes it easier to cart your kid to an open store rather than a closed one. Back in The Day, 24 hour stores were the exception, not the rule. It it’s open, they will come…
Maybe we might want to rally around the idea of a shorter work week being legislated in the US. Certainly would help parents feel less pressured if we actually did have more hours in the day. We can’t add a 25th hour, so how about fighting for a shorter work week? They do it in other countries and none of those countries have shut their doors and had all their houses and cars reposessed.
It’s a terrible feeling to have a child and feel like you get no time to spend with your child. However, on the flip side, kids really do need more sleep than adults.
There is no easy answer to this conundrum without sounding as if a moral highground is being taken. But bottom line, I think a step in the right direction would be a shorter work week.
oops, sorry for errors in prior post. Spoke my piece without re-checking it.
No matter how late it is, 10, 11, 12pm, when I am picking up something late at the 24hr grocery store there is inevitably a parent or couple with thier kids…yes usually multiple kids in tow.
When we had one kid and I stayed home, we let him stay up late and sleep in because I could sleep in later that way and get more sleep myself. When we had our second, that changed a bit and when our kids went to daycare it changed sharply to 7:30pm.
The amount of sleep is the important issue, but I for one highly doubt all these kids I see in the grocery store are getting 12-14hrs of sleep (as needed according to age). Sure it isn’t as bad as neglect or abuse, but it is an issue to be concerned about. As most of you probably know lack of sleep effects the mood of your child and by default your relationship with your child. It also bleeds over into things like the relationship between obesity and lack of sleep. I don’t know of specific incidents but I can see a sleep deprived kid going nuts and driving a sleep deprived parent to do things that they wouldn’t otherwise do. Sleep deprivation is a huge issue in our culture, IMO, that effects many areas of life and death from medical mistakes to car accidents from test scores to weight gain.
Nothing to scoff at.
Matt I agree with you one hundred percent. Sleep deprivation is a huge issue. Children physically need sleep for their growth and development and you are correct that sleep deprivation can in fact contribute to issues of unintentional child abuse and neglect. I’ve worked with families who have been in that boat.
My husband is in the military. Military,law enforcement and others, are trained to understand that depriving someone of sleep is highly effective in dealing with prisoners of war, suspects, etc.
Sleep deprivation is also incidious. There are those who can miss one night of rest and be fine, there are others who miss one night a week and the cumulative effect can be a dissaster. It’s not just whether you get enough hours on any given night, it can also be how your body adds up those hours too. Make sense? I had a rough night, not too much sleep. But my kids? In bed. ; )
I can’t stand that! As much as I can’t stand parents who take their 3 yr olds to R rated movies…are you kidding me??!!
First of all, different cultures have different norms regarding this. And since we’re a melting pot kind of place….
Second, I used to be you. Until I had one child who would not transition easily from two naps to one. One was not enough, but the second nap didn’t happen until about 5:00 PM. So, we were up late at night. I would have paid good money for an all night playground. It went on for about a year, and I’m sure I was soapbox fodder for more than one parent with “perfect” kids. C’est la vie.
Also, not all kids go to preschool or even elementary school. Homeschooled kids can keep very different hours and get enough sleep, thank you very much. Also, not every kid needs 14 hours of sleep a day. Cookie cutter parenting is just about the worst parenting out there, moreso than permissive parenting. It assumes that all humans are exactly alike, and kids will start off very early doing everything in their power to show adults just how wrong they are. I’ve seen more harm done through parents digging in their heels in power plays, than through parents actually listening to their children’s real needs, “giving in” once in a while and choosing their battles.
There is a reason that there isn’t just one flavor of ice cream.
Also, I had friends with children with different health/mental issues. Sleep was always an issue. And nighttime sleeping was fraught with more challenges than just allowing daytime sleeping/frequent naps.
I just can’t find it in myself to judge parents I see out in public for something as trivial as this, and especially without knowing all the details or their individual circumstances.
Then again, people who do make sport of judging other parents are, I have found, usually very insecure in their own parenting choices and only feel good about them through making others out to be bad parents. I understand that your post is simply questioning, and I hope that other valid answers have come forward beyond just “bad parent”. We as parents don’t need to feel afraid or threatened by those who choose to parent well but differently. A child can be awake at 10 at night, and still be a healthy, happy, well-cared for and well-disciplined child. This should not threaten anyone who parents differently and feels good about their own choices as relevant to their own situation.
But what if your business is looking out the window at all the poor suckers with their wide awake kids?
I’m also amazed over what parents do, not only with bedtimes but in general. Many haven’t realized that kids usually sleep far worse when they are overtired. And kids don’t do well with 7-8 hours of sleep.
I think it’s all about knowing your kids and their needs. But since many, or most, work long hours and spend very little time with their kids, I’m not surprised they do clueless things on a daily basis.
Young kids need lots of sleep, I can immediately tell when ours have had a couple of nights of so-so sleep. Our kids are asleep between 7.30-8.30 pm and get up around 7.30 am. Youngest one, 15 months, also has a 1.5 hours nap during the day. Seems to work well for us.
Something that might occur every now and then is that kids go to sleep very late because of their parents schedule. They might go to bed late but they also sleep in late. It’s a way for the parents to maximize their time together.
I often have opinions on parenting but keep it to myself. Although it’s tough sometimes when close people, like BIL or SIL, that I care about do things that clearly harm their kids. My general policy is that I don’t get involved unless other kids are in danger or parents are hurting them. Then I will get involved for the sake of the kids.
AD
Think about the parents who work swing shifts or nights. All these late hour places and 24 hour places are staffed by someone, and those workers may have kids. Some may be single parents as well. At first I thought it odd to see a daycare center near my home was open till 11pm, but honestly what would you expect a parent to do if they have to work evenings?
You just never know.
They may have a good reason or may not. I’m sure I’ve done it a ton of times. This year, I can think of several. Such as the fact that we just travelled east to meet family and our plane was 4 hours late. Between that and the three hour time difference, the kids were awake at all sorts of crazy times. (And are still adjusting).
Also, fun trips to the ER often lead to us being in weird places at weird hours. (But probably not to a coffee shop as a family. :D)
Stuff happens. If it hasn’t happened to you you probably have kids that sleep easily or something. ;)
You should mind your own biz ‘cuz you don’t other people telling you how to parent.
but if you want to feel extra good about your own kids’ sleep habits check out this article on sleep deprivation in children and how it affects their cognitive abilities
http://nymag.com/news/features/38951/
Late to the game, but still have an opinion.
My kids are 9:30 kids…even the baby. I totally agree with the point about the quantity of time kids need to sleep but have no idea why it matters when that quantity starts.
When the baby (7 months old) goes down at 9-9:30pm he wakes up at 7:30-8am. He also has 2 naps during the day. He easily gets the hours he needs. Our 9 yo has wind down at 9 where he reads in his bed, then lights out at 9:30. He doesn’t have to get up until almost 8 (school starts at 9:15 am and we are about 3 minutes from the school) so he, too, gets all the sleep he needs.
Being a SAHM, there’s no way I am starting my day at 5am just so the baby can go to bed at 7pm! I don’t go to bed at 7 and would be exhausted the next day…making me a crappier parent.
Whatever makes your family work and keeps your kids happy and healthy is what matters. Leave the judgments for the serious offenses.
I’m way late here but I was chastised recently for being too rigid about bedtime with my son (2 years, 8 months). He’s in bed between 7:15 and 7:45 every night. If we’re running a little late on dinner, he’s still in bed on time. I could try to keep him up later for more family time but we would all pay the price. It would not be fun for very long. He’s a different kid when he’s tired and not one that I like to be around.
When it comes to sleep issues, I don’t feel comfortable saying anything to others unless I know them well. We have friends who claim their kid, the same age as my son, will not go to sleep before 10pm. I know them, and know that to be a crock. But with a family I don’t know as well I would just smile and nod.
These are the same parents who have behaviourally challenged children (they usually call it ADHD) because the poor kiddos are so DAMN TIRED! I am with you 100% on this one. Bedtime is 7:30 here. No later, period.
K.