Hypothetically Speaking, a Douglas Adams Trilogy
The Bean's Dad | March 11I had been doing this on Mondays, but today yesterday seemed a little slow around The Blogfathers…
Our previous episode generated a nearly unanimus response. Except a couple of dissenters (Wicked Stepmom plus me), the consensus was that it’s fine for other parents to visit your children in the daycare facility.
I proudly stand in the minority on this one and will attempt to articulate my dissention.
First some elimination:
My problems do not derive from germ concerns. Kids get sick from daycare/pre-school, I’m over it.
I’m also not concerned about my child being abducted. OK, actually it’s my worst nightmare but it has nothing to do with daycare or other parents at daycare.
My uneasiness is a compilation of several things.
1) I think, even at six months old, children have a right to privacy. Meaning that while at daycare/school they shouldn’t have to “deal” with random people interrupting their day. There’s a difference being waving through a window (which is OK) and entering the room to say HI (which is what we’re talking about and not OK) so don’t get all uppity about the decline of our society where people can’t say Hi without being labeled a perv.
2) I’m not very comfortable with my child as a tourist attraction.
3) I don’t wander the halls with my child looking at other kids. I expect the same courtesy extended to me and mine. Golden Rule, right?
4) Where’s “the line” and who determines if it’s been crossed? Will this mom be picking up my child next week? And the week after that letting her child hold the baby?
The reality is that i don’t really know what I would do since I borrowed this situation from a friend. I might have started with the directors and staff of the daycare to get more information like “How often?”, “Is there touching/holding?”, “What’s the policy?”, etc. Then express my concerns with them hoping to put my mind at ease with a little dialogue. After that? A horse head in her bed.
That’s all I have to say about that.
New scenario:
You’re on a family vacation. This vacation involves flying on a plane, taking a shuttle service from the airport and the use of Taxi’s to get around. When do you use a car seat? Or, when do you not use one? Please assume that your child(ren) still need a car seat.
I suspect there are laws regarding this topic but I’d rather hear what you’ve done (or would do) and not what the authorities say we’re supposed to do.
I know what we do? What do you do, hypothetically of course?
What we did on a trip to Europe:
Plane: No, to cheap to buy seat if not required.
Shuttle: No, nowhere to attach seat/ standing room only.
Taxi: Yes.
Don’t those things save lives?
Surely you should do it whenever possible
About the 6-month old. I think you’re overreacting and not seeing the big picture. With those feelings the child should not be at kindergarten - EVER. You do give up some privacy at kindergarten. You’ve got a school/house full of kids and it’s absolutely impossible for teachers to look after your child every second. Remember that you’re trying to get the child ready for real life, not have him/her turn into some weird Michael Jackson freak. In real life your child will interact with humans everywhere and it’s not always in the desired way but that’s life. In case you want privacy there are other ways. Hire two fulltime nannys and a body guard, install bulletproof windows that you can’t see through and use the best locks possible, never let your child outside the house or play with strangers, and set up surveillance with sound and video. The surveilance should be protected by Triple DES at all times for extra security and ultimate privacy.
I have my child at kindergarten and I do have a choice. I can hire people to take care of him, complete with bodyguards if I care, or let him grow up in real life and interact with other kids. I choose real life and he’s therefore at kindergarten with all the other kids. I do take the precautions so that the chance for kidnapping/abduction is minimal and I also stay in close contact with the school but that’s it.
About the child seat. Anyone letting their child ride for a single second in a car without a child seat is an irresponsible idiot and should be arrested and put in jail immediately (which will happen in many countries by the way). There are no excuses. Period. We have done 25 flights to different continets so far with our 2-year old and he has NEVER been in a car without a child seat regardless of location. And it will never happen. He does use public transportation (bus/subway) in different towns( and at home) and I consider it impossible to use a childseat under those circumstances. The risk in a bus or train is also minimal. We bring the childseat wherever we travel and never rent one. You never know what kind of seat will be provided, if it has been in a crash, or if it’s safe. When traveling from airports we take a limo/towncar/rental/friends car with our child seat. During flights he sits in our lap until age two and after that in his own seat with no childseat (perhaps a special pillow though). If we use a taxi we always bring the childseat.
Bringing the childseat has always meant very little extra work. And since it’s a vacation you can plan it accordingly. In case you don’t want to use a child seat you should not have kids in the car. I have seen this countless of times in Mexico where no one uses a childseat, not even even the wealthy and educated. Your child should sit facing the rear until age four otherwise the risks increase dramatically. In case anyone likes not to use a childseat you should know that the chance for immediate death in a crash of 25 miles an hour are siginificant. What’s the point of having a child if you’re not going to take basic and responsible precautions?
AD
We have done the plane flight, taxi’s, etc as described with babies and we’ve always brought their carseats along. It’s not that big of a bother, heck just traveling with a baby is enough on its own, another minute dealing with the carseat isn’t much.
The only place where we didn’t bring carseats were the Disney World shuttles, which I really didn’t like. But since there weren’t seatbelts on the shuttle in the first place, I didn’t see anyway to use the carseats. (We also didn’t have an infant at the time, the youngest was 2 years old.)
AD wrote “Your child should sit facing the rear until age four otherwise the risks increase dramatically.”
Since when? I was always told that rear facing until 1 year and at least 20 pounds. This was told to me by my pedi and my DH who is a cop. Unless this is your personal belief or you have statistics to back it.
As for the ? I’m in this dilemma also. I will be taking a plane/car trip with my 14 month old. I choose to purchase her a seat and will use the car seat on the plane. Because I can keep her somewhat contained (I don’t see her sitting on our laps for 4 hours straight) but also because it is just as unsafe and irresponsible as not using it in a car. People are just being cheap not buying an seat for their child in my opinion. A couple hundred dollars is worth my peice of mind ( and sanity as well as the other passengers! )
Did Adventure Dad just call an entire nation of parents irresponsible idiots and suggest jailing them all?
If if it’s never ok to go without a carseat in a car then why is ok to not use one in a plane or a bus?
Our child is on the small side and at just over one year she was too long to face backwards in the car. Her feet were practically kicking the head rest (slight exageration). Is four years old the law in Sweden?
On the one hand, I’m with AD in that the car seat must be used at all times in a car, and that it must be one’s own car seat. On the other hand, the idea of using a car seat in a plane seems absurd. Let’s be real frank, if the plane goes down we’re all going to die (and if car seats are going to save lives where’s mine?). That’s just the reality of the situation. But we make these risk vs. reward decisions all the time: The chance of being in a plane crash is pretty close to the chance of getting hit by an asteriod, so go ahead and fly to disneyland, and don’t bother with the car seat ’cause it won’t help anyway. But when you get there, use the car seat because you’ll probably be in several car crashes in your lifetime and this is a risk you can mitigate.
I’m hoping Adventure Dad meant SITTING IN the rear and not FACING the rear until they are 4 years old.
Um…an “irresposible idiot who should be arrested?” A bit strong, my good man. What if you lived in the middle east, where, ironically enough, gas prices are so high that you don’t own a car? You walk most places, so your vehicle of choice is a bugaboo. However, if something is not within .walking distance, you take a cab, since bus bombing are not your “thing,” if you will. And while it is obviously not ideal, you cannot bring a car seat. What would you do with it afterwards, while pushing the carriage up the hilly streets? You used one and would click it in to the base, but that was until you child hit 20 pounds. He is now 30 pounds. Rude as we Isrealis can be sometimes, I refuse to accept the “jailed idiot” idea.
How did we all make it to this point? I remember my younger brother standing in the back of the station wagon when he was two trying to keep his balance and getting mad at my Mom when he tipped over.
There are generations of people who grew up with out car seats. We use them and they are a great idea, mostly because they keep the kid locked down and not pulling Mommies hair as she tries to navigate traffic.
Any time you get in a vehicle there is the oppurtunity for catastrophe. Lock ‘em down when you can. I don’t understand why AD thinks a bus or a plane is safer than his limo or town car.
Holy AD! Talk about taking things to the extreme! Settle down there big fella!
First he dismisses the totally acceptable and understandable concern that every parent experiences towards their childs safety/well-being by stating that in order to maintain an acceptable level of privacy for your child you would need to hire a staff of body guards and nannys and install a network of security hardware. Oh yeah and you can forget about kindergarten altogether. I believe the concern was in regard to basic privacy not total seclusion on a Howard Hughes scale. In this case I would think that a discussion with the daycare operators will suffice. So, really the whole first paragraph could have been reduced to:
“I do take the precautions so that the chance for kidnapping/abduction is minimal and I also stay in close contact with the school but that’s it.”
So, here it seems that AD is almost ridiculing the parent(s) in this case for being overly protective of their child. Then in the next paragraph he states his views on child seats.
“Anyone letting their child ride for a single second in a car without a child seat is an irresponsible idiot and should be arrested and put in jail immediately”
In this case it seems ‘overly-protective’ is OK.
Then finally:
“What’s the point of having a child if you’re not going to take basic and responsible precautions?”
I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean. I’m thinking the translation is something like: If you’re going to let your kid ride for “a single second in a car” without a car seat then why bother having children.?
I doubt very many people say,”Honey, I’d like to have a baby.”
“But Dear, what if an emergency comes up and I have to get the kid across town without the aid of a Child Seat?”
“Oh right, I guess there is no point in having a child at all. Thanks Honey!”
Swan, I’ve been on planes that went through severe turbulence and I have seen small children get thrown to the floor, out of their parents’ hands. That was before I had children, and when I did have them and when we flew, we *always* bought a seat for the car-seat-bound child. Always. If we couldn’t afford to buy the seat, we didn’t fly.
So, planes, yes. Shuttle buses? If they had seat belts, sure, but I’ve never been on one that did. Taxis, yes, assuming I had some place to put the car seat when it wasn’t in use. We’ve never ridden in a taxi with a small child, though, so it’s never come up.
Airplane: You mean you’re not supposed to check it with your other luggage?
Shuttle: Typically this is the point I realize I’ve left the kid at the baggage carousel
Taxi: Pretty straightforward… what about Rickshaw? Water Taxi? Horse-drawn carriage? Hot Air Balloon?
Does anyone know if there have been any child injuries from not being properly secured in a car seat when riding in a Gondola?
Uh, Adventure Dad, you are pretty hypocritical for being too cheap to buy your child a seat on the airplane so you can properly secure your child. You decided that the risk on the airplane is too low to outweigh the extra expense. Some people have done the same for short motor vehicle rides. Apparently you get to decide for all where the line should be drawn.
By the way, I am a pilot and I consider you an idiot for not securing your child under 2 yrs. of age in a car seat on the airplane.
Wow, I understand the safety issue on a plane, but stop saying cheap, 300 bucks is a lot of money for many, maybe more than can be aforded and sometimes just not flying is not an option. Like whether or not you want to hear your family whining how they did not see you again for Christmas and you want your little ones to actually know their grandparents. I think you are misenterpriting cheap.
I’ve got no problems being critized for caring about a child. I consider it an honor. Sweden is far ahead of most countries when it comes to child safety so perhaps some of this stuff is news for some readers. Comparing the safety knowledge to US is difficult since they are so far behind. All the tools are available for perfect child safety but the EDUCATION is at a terrible level. I do know since I spent half my life living in US. It seems like few unfortunately know about the drastic differences in safety if your child faces the rear. You will think I’m an idiot until you child is in a crash (hopefully that will never happen) and then you will realize that he/she could have been alive if you took the correct precautions.
Anyone with half a brain knows that flying and being on a bus can’t even be compared to riding in a car so let’s talk about something we can compare. If I would take a bus for a longer ride my child would of course be in a childseat. In the local bus it’s not possible and the risks are limited since the bus is going 20 mph.
I was not too cheap to buy a seat on the plane before my son was two, I have no problems buyíng three seats for him if it makes a difference, but the difference in safety is small if you take the neccessary precautions. Flying is the safest way to travel if anyone didn’t know. Stuff happens but please don’t compare it with riding in a car. It’s vastly different.
Yes my language was strong because I feel strongly about protecting my child, and everyones elses child as well.
It was not a misprint to say that the child should sit facing the rear until age 4. Actually it’s more like in between 3 and 4 years of age but this depends on your child. This is not a law in Sweden but it’s HIGHLY recommended. It’s true that you CAN turn your child around after the first year but if you compare the two you would not want to do it. If your doctor/pedi told you differently they are wrong. It you look at any research done on this subject, which I think people should do before making incorrect smartass comments about it, you will find that having your child FACE the rear is many times safer than facing forward. It’s not only a small difference in safety, it’s HUGE difference . But if you never look at the research you would of course never know. If your child can’t sit facing the rear at age 1 you are using the wrong child seat or doing something else incorrect. My son is 2 years old and extremely tall for his age. He sits facing the rear with no problems.
Brad, if a whole nation is not protecting their children properly I think it’s appropriate to call them irresponsible idiots. I don’t mind offending some to make their children safer. Not all are idiots but lets just say safety can be improved dramatically in the US as you can see on the answers above. For example, how can people not know it’s man many times safer for you child facing teh rear until age 3 or 4? Hopefully someone got really pissed off beause of my writing and decided to check the facts which will lead to their child being much safer.
Have a nice week ahead
AD
Sorry to nag but here’s a little quote that you can find in many respectable places on the internet concerning child safety, “A forward-facing child is nearly 60% more likely to die in a crash than a rear facing child”. And that continues to be true far beyond the 1 year limit which most people don’t seem to understand. To me that’s a pretty good reason to keep my child facing the rear.
AD
That number is probably not correct. After some more research the number is even scarier. This risk that a small child dies or is badly injured is five to six times HIGHER when your child is facing forward. Your child should face the rear as long as possible. Minimum until age 3 but until age 4 would be preferable.
Yup. We kept our daughter rear-facing until her head was within an inch of the top of the seat, as per Consumer Union and APA guidelines. I can’t believe so many people still only know the “one year/20 pounds” guideline. She’s quite tall, our daughter, so she is front-facing now at age three, but we’d have kept her rear-facing longer, had she been smaller.
Honestly, what’s the point of turning them around sooner, if it’s even a little safer not to do so? I don’t get it.
I have never had to travel by shuttle or cab with young children so I’ve not had to face this. I am not above breaking some of the safety rules here and there, but I try not to break the carseat rules.
Having said that, if I were to take a hardlined stance on the car thing, then I wouldn’t be willing to do less than that on air travel. While it is perhaps the safest form of travel where deaths are concerned, injuries due to turbulence are NOT uncommon. I’ve travel a lot on business and have been on some scary bumpy trips. An unsecured child is NOT safe. So, Adventure Dad, unless you can predict with accuracy what type of flight you will get, I would say your different views on ground and air travel are somewhat confusing in how they seem to contradict each other.